Even though he appears unhappy most times while thinking about the previous catastrophe, he wants to move on with his life. Yates' 2002 capital murder conviction for drowning her five children in a bath tub was overturned by an appeals court because of false testimony by the state's expert psychiatric witness. According to court documents, Arnold filed for divorce in 2015. Rusty now has an 8-year-old . 16:28 EDT 23 Apr 2015 Dr Gorman Obgyn, Celebrating the 29th Anniversary of the IFBB Arnold Classic and the 11th Arnold Amateur Championships. https://t.co/5TrD9h00EE. 'They just take her and put her on public display, with the bodies of my children. Fabulous Killjoys, Rusty refused to blame Andrea, testifying during her trial:She kind of described it as a dark period, that she was in a dark place.. Ean Name Pronunciation, In 2002, Parnham and his wife created the Yates Children Memorial Fund, to help bring awareness about postpartum depression to the Houston community. They brought (Yates) out, and she looked like a zombie. Even though there isn't much news about Rusty's second wife, Laura, she is said to have two sons from a previous relationship, Kevin, 38, and Mose, 26. Citations since 2017. The popular bag is available in a zesty neon yellow and pastel pink. Samma Meaning In Urdu, For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser. My bringing attention to Laura Arnold's TEDx talk was my thinking the general public would get from that talk the sense that there is a real problem, it affects them and needs to be addressed. They believe philanthropy should be transformational and should seek through innovation to solve persistent problems in society. Roxanne Shante Siblings, The Unspeakable Crime of Andrea Yates," who continues to talk with Rusty Yates. Andreas case occasionally comes up for review, but shes never sought to be released. Yates called 911 that day, asking that Houston police come to her house. As co-founders, Laura and John actively engage in the organization's overall direction and daily Copy from Channel 11 (KHOU) video of Andrea Yates during initial court appearance early morning on Thursday, June 21, 2001. She struggled with bulimia when she was a teenager. She has served on the town council for more than four years, beginning in 2018. Yates, who turns 53 on July 2, currently resides in the Kerrville State Hospital, where she will likely stay for the rest of her life. Family (1) Spouse Laura Arnold ( 21 March 2006 - present) (1 child) Andrea Yates ( 17 April 1993 - 17 March 2005) (divorced) (5 children) Trivia (2) She is the only patient at Kerrville State Hospital who has never received a group-outing pass, said Parnham. A request to delay the trial until summer is due to be heard before the trial starts Monday. Endorsement: The Times endorses Hoffman, Anderson, Henderson and Han for LACCD. We are no longer accepting comments on this article. Laura E Yates Consulting LLC. But an appeals court granted her a retrial and in 2006 she was found not guilty by reason of insanity and moved to a mental health facility. How Far Is Kissimmee From Lakeland, email . John Yates is shown in this undated family snapshot mounted to a poster that sat outside the chapel during his funeral service Wednesday, June 27, 2001, in Houston. Try to kill her? By Yates, who visited his ex-wife six weeks ago, told the Associated Press in an e-mail, "Andrea has been aware of [the wedding] for a couple of months, and she wishes me the best, just as I wish her the best." She is again pleading insanity at her retrial. Fourteen years ago, Rusty Yates' life was forever changed with one phone call. In December, he took Arnold to Tennessee to meet his extended family, and he proposed that month. The wedding ceremony took place at the Clear Lake Church of Christ, south of Houston, site of funeral services for the. Investigation Discoverys Andrea Yates: The Crimes That Changed Us chronicles the baffling story of Andrea Yates, who, back in 2001, meticulously drowned all five of her children in the bathtub of the Yates family home and then dialed 911. Rusty now has an 8-year-old son with his second wife, who filed for divorce last year. Cheryl Arnold is the first person confirmed to serve on the Public Employment Relations Board since Republicans gutted public sector collective bargaining in 2017. The first trial, where prosecutors sought the death penalty, was hard on Mr Yates. Amazon Student Sign Up, Even though there isn't much news about Rusty's second wife, Laura, she is said to have two sons from a previous relationship, Kevin, 38, and Mose, 26. When Yates returned from work that day in June 2001, he discovered that his wife had killed their five children by drowning them. The longtime attorney for Andrea Yates gives an update on the woman who horrified the nation when she drowned her five children in 2001. George Parnham was Yates' attorney during the trial and still talks to her on a weekly basis at the Texas mental hospital where she remains today at 52 years old. Michael and Susan Dell, Austin $1 billion. "Cops were crying,'' Archer told Shamlian. Is Chanel West Coast Married to Her Boyfriend Dom Fenison? RELATED: 'Justice has not been served,' Natalee Holloway's mother says. He said that both mother and baby are doing well, though he declined to reveal any more information. Yates and Arnold met through Arnold's older son, Kyle, who'd become friendly with Yates when they played on a church basketball team, according to Yates's aunt, the Rev. "Yates' former husband, Rusty Yates, divorced her in March 2005, three years after she was sentenced to life in prison in the deaths of the five children. Russell Yates walks past the grave of his murdered children Thursday morning June 20, 2002, the one year anniversary of the children's death at the hands of their mother, Andrea Yates. They have one child together, a boy, who is now 12. This is a carousel. According to her attorney, Andrea, now 56, spends her leisure time doing arts and crafts. A mother may experience postpartum depression following the birth of her child. The horror of that day still resonates with many who were connected even 15 years later. John S Mccain Sr, She never leaves the hospital and has never sought. Yates, 37, arrived at the Woodman State Jail about 5:45 a.m. where she was photographed, fingerprinted and issued a white prison uniform. March 2nd - 5th, 2017, Columbus, Ohio. The house at Beachcomber and Sea Lark, now remodeled, took center stage in 2001 when Andrea Yates drowned her five children. Rusty Yates is now living with his second wife, Laura Arnold, following his divorce from Andrea Yates. What may seem a minor change in the couple's grantmaking, however, has far-reaching consequences for political giving, as wealthy donors bypass traditional foundationsand . Joseph (Rusty) Walter III and Paula Walter . Reporter Phil Archer of NBC affiliate KPRC can still remember the chilling scene from that night when Yates' crime was discovered. Remembering the sad, shocking Andrea Yates case, 16 years later. Andrea Yates is also called a cold-blooded killer who deserves to die for what she did. For Rusty, those memories are what defines the people who got lost, not the event itself, which is why he forgave Andrea. Yates was sentenced to life in prison in 2002 after being convicted of capital murder for the drowning deaths of Noah, 7; John, 5; Paul, 3; Luke 2; and Mary, 6 months. She's been medically stable for five years.'. Andrea Yates' ex-husband has condemned the criminal process the killer was put through 14 years after she drowned their five children in the bathtub of their suburban Texas home. Father of the five slain children, Russell E. Yates, is escorted back to his house by police. An appeals court overturned those convictions based on mistaken testimony by a psychiatrist. Mini Bio (1) Russell Yates was born on September 6, 1964 in Tennessee, USA as Russell Edison Yates. Best Match Powered by Whitepages Premium AGE 20s Laura Arnold Dallas, TX (Northeast Dallas) Aliases Arnold Laura View Full Report Addresses Help us build our profile of Russell Rusty Yates and Laura Arnold! Andrea Yates tried to kill herself at least twice. They have one child. When her husband, Russell, called from work, Yates told him to come home. Their final resting place is marked by an ornate monument featuring etchings of their faces. Since the fund's creation, over 600,000 brochures on postpartum illnesses have been handed out around the community. Evidence & Forensic Analytical Techniques. Buttigieg is the Biden campaigns ruthless secret weapon. Sahil Name Style Image, The church minister said Yates chose to "All I ask of you is one thing: please don't be cynical. RELATED: 9 years after wife's disappearance, Drew Peterson sentenced in murder-for-hire plot. Pictured L to R are: Paul, John, Noah and Luke in a picture dated October, 2000. Here are the Los Angeles Times editorial board endorsements for president, California ballot measures and more. Harrisonburg, Virginia. He is also a stepfather to Arnold's children from a previous marriage. Miranda Kerrs Beauty Secret; Plastic Surgery or $275 Facial, Yvette Nicole Brown Loses Weight After Diabetes Diagnosis. "I can't name a worse situation than this maybe with the exception of (the) Sandy Hook (school shooting),'' Archer said. Introduction: Cognitive Stimulation Therapy (CST) is a well-established intervention for people with dementia shown to improve cognition and quality of . Ipswich Hospital Appointments Phone Number, Winx Club Season 8 Episode 20 Full Episode English, Johnson And Johnson Case Study Strategic Management, Neutrogena Naturals Fresh Cleansing + Makeup Remover, I Think I'll Just Stay Here And Drink Cover, I Will Spend My Whole Life Loving You Instrumental. Little was known about it at the time and most afflicted mothers were left to suffer in silence. Fairy Caroland. Yates still lives there now, more than 13 years later. Flowers, angels and small toys sit at the base of the headstone of the five slain Yates children, Noah, John, Paul, Luke and Mary, at a Houston cemetery Tuesday, June 18, 2002, nearly one year after they were drowned by their mother, Andrea Yates. When discovered, they were found lying all over a bed or drowned in a bathtub. Edna Name Pronunciation, If her lawyers are unable to convince the jury she was insane, she could be executed or spend life in prison. Convicted child killer Andrea Yates is shown in this Texas Department of Criminal Justice photo made in Gatesville, Texas, Thursday, March 21, 2002. He said that both mother and baby are doing well, though he declined to reveal any more information. After 22 years, Andrea Pia Yates's case has been sent many brochures and other information to new mothers and their families. Russell Rusty Yates and Laura Arnold - Dating, Gossip, News, Photos list. He was previously married to Andrea Yates. Earlier that day she fed the children breakfast and said goodbye to her husband as he left for work. Neutrogena Naturals Fresh Cleansing + Makeup Remover, Camberwell Hospital, IE 11 is not supported. Rusty Yates now lives a peaceful life with his children, appearing to desire to separate himself from the media and the public. Laura Arnold was married before she met Rusty Yates. Rusty Yates divorced Andrea three years after the incident and later remarried and had a son who is now 8 years old. Rumor has it that he and his wife Laura are now in the midst of a divorce. Manuel Margot Statcast, Andrea Yates leaves the Harris County Jail with her attorney George Parnham as she is released on bail, Feb. 2, 2006, in Houston. Last year, doctorsrecommended that she be granted permission to attend group outings from the psychiatric hospital where she has been institutionalized since 2006. Yates's new bride is Laura Arnold, a mother of two sons, 9 and 21. In the years since, her name has reemerged, usually connected to similar cases of women stricken with postpartum depression killing or injuring their children, or when it's learned that she could be given certain privileges. Moreover, Yates also discussed how his life altered following his second marriage and the birth of his kid with his second wife at the meeting. 01:34 EDT 26 Apr 2015. The advocate who led the charge was Vinny DeMarco, whose group, the Maryland Citizens' Health Initiative, won a three-year, $616,000 grant from Arnold Ventures in 2017. Lauren A Yates. Yokogawa Corporation Of America Email, "Rusty's always loved children," Caroland says, but she's uncertain whether the couple plans to have children. The divorce was granted on March 17, 2005, after which Rusty began dating his second wife, Laura Arnold. She had severe postpartum depression, postpartum pychosis, and schizophrenia. (He did not reply to NEWSWEEK's requests for an interview.) In 1999, Andrea Yates tried to kill herself twice. Andrea suffered from severe postpartum depression and had twice tried to commit suicide. Rusty is now living a new life and shares a son with Laura; the child's name is Mark. Andrea Yates 'grieves for her children' 15 years after shocking crime, 'Preppy Killer' case: Victim's mother, former DA reflect on loss, 'sociopathic' crime. Yates former wife, Andrea Yates, drowned their five children in a bathtub in 2001. Mark is the son of Rusty and Laura, and he is older than Noah, his older half-brother who died before Mark was born. Yandere Dev Twitch, RELATED: 'Preppy Killer' case: 30 years later, victim's mom says she doesn't want apology. When defense lawyer George Parnham asked why the family placed Andrea Yates in the care of a psychiatrist they didnt particularly trust, her husband sighed. Yates married Laura Arnold, 41, during a private ceremony attended by 100 people at Clear Lake Church of Christ, where they met. To his credit, Rusty understood that the woman who killed their children was not right in the head. Russell (Rusty) Yates married on Saturday, only two days before his ex-wife, Andrea, was set to stand trial again in a Houston court on charges. In early 2019, mega-donors John and Laura Arnold announced they were transforming their philanthropy from a foundation to a for-profit companyin effect forgoing tax benefits in exchange for near-perfect anonymity. After what happened in the past to Rusty's ex-wife, he is making an effort to be more careful in his management of postpartum. Aimee Spector. "Andrea just wants life to go on and is at peace with this and she just wants the best for Rusty and his new wife and the baby," Parnham told ABC News. He was born November 24, 1931 in Cabarrus County. "There was a lot of emotion there. Yates began dating Arnold shortly after his divorce became final on March 17, 2005. Mothers suffering from postpartum depression sometimes hurt or kill their children. Rusty Yates married Laura Arnold, 41, during a private ceremony Saturday at the church where they met. The church minister said Yates chose to move on with his life while . Andrea Yates was acquitted and sent to the North Texas State Hospital, a high-security mental health facility in Vernon, Wilbarger County, Texas, where she got much-needed medical care. He talked about her post partum depression and his attempts to help her through her battle with mental illness. The children of Rusty Yates and Andrea were named Noah, John, Paul, Luke, and Mary. Andrea had many mental illness diagnoses, which Yates accused of neglecting and not treating as seriously as he should have. Andrea Yates and her attorney George Parnham listen as the verdict is read in her murder retrial July 26, 2006, in Houston, Texas. While some say that Rusty no longer works at NASA, his LinkedIn profile shows that he still holds the title of Senior Systems Engineer at Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. Laura and John Arnold, Houston $285 million. Join Facebook to connect with Laura Yates and others you may know. Yates was released on bail after her conviction was overturned in the drowning deaths of her children. Reports claim Rusty maintains contact with Andrea, whos incarcerated at the minimum security Kerrville State Hospital. By Who Was The First Teacher Name, Laura Arnold was married before she met Rusty Yates. And as for his personal relationship, Rusty did remarry in 2006, tying the knot with Laura Arnold, whom he met at church, but they have since divorced. He has been married to Laura Arnold since March 21, 2006. The former nurse and stay-at-home mom had a history of psychiatric hospitalizations and suicide attempts before the horrific incident, when she drowned her children, one by one, in the family bathtub. Yates married Laura Arnold, 41, during a private ceremony attended by 100 people at Clear Lake Church of Christ, where they met. Rusty said Andreas mental health dipped rapidly in the months preceding the murders. 1 It is closely associated with two more grantmaking organizations funded by the Arnolds, the Laura and John Arnold Foundation and the for-profit Arnold Ventures.. Funding Financial Overview. Use Next and Previous buttons to navigate. Jun 2017 - Aug 20173 months. They have one child. Roger Mcguinn Dreamland, Mark is now 16 years old, and for the past 17 years, they have been a healthy and loving family. RELATED: Years after Andrea Yates case, attitudes towards postpartum are changing. Powered by WordPress.com VIP. Rusty and Laura met at the church they both attend. Paul Yates is shown in this undated family snapshot mounted to a poster that sat outside the chapel during his funeral service Wednesday, June 27, 2001, in Houston. Yates still thinks about her children regularly and grieves for them, according to attorney George Parnham (pictured at her right), who still keeps in regular contact with her. Rusty Yates divorced Andrea Yates and remarried. Andrea Yates is accused of drowning Mary and her four brothers in the family's bathtub. Russell E.Yates,the father of the five children who were killed in their Clear Lake City home,is escorted to his car by police after collecting a few items at home on June 20, 2001. Facebook gives people the power to. People are curious about Andrea's ex-husband Rusty Yates' new life and his new wife. It's a tragedy that still resonates 15 years after the day that Rusty Yates returned home from work to the horror of learning that his wife Andrea had killed all five of their young children. He was employed by Winn Dixie Stores, Inc. for over 30 years. On July 26, 2006 Yates was found not guilty by reason of insanity and was committed to North Texas State Hospital. Pepsi Distributor In Goa, Yates, Lora Ann 12/24/1962 - 10/8/2017 Lake Forest, IL Lora A. Yates (Sielatycki) died peacefully, though unexpectedly, due to complications of cancer October 8, 2017 in Highland Park, IL. Create your own unique website with customizable templates. Yates's new bride is Laura Arnold, a mother of two sons, 9 and 21. Rusty Yates opens the car door for his new bride Laura Arnold as they leave the Clear Lake Church of Christ after being married Saturday, March 18, 2006 in Clear Lake, Texas. Both Yates and Arnold are active in church affairs, including a program called the Stephen Ministry, which trains church members to counsel people weathering difficult times. Noah Yates is shown in this undated family snapshot mounted to a poster that sat outside Clear Lake Church of Christ during his funeral service Wednesday, June 27, 2001, in Houston. Yates blamed Dr. Mohammed Saeed for taking Andrea off an antipsychotic drug two days before the drownings. Ifu Services, A November 2000 photo shows Rusty and Andrea Yates with their four boys, from left, John, Luke, Paul and Noah. It is easy to judge the actions of another, as though we know all the intricate details of their life story. in 2017. Mary Yates, 6 months, is shown in this undated family photograph. Arnold was a loving and devoted. Russell Yates rocked nervously, averted his eyes and wept as he described a family crushed by a mental sickness whose severity they underestimated. Speech, Jim Jordan's Crime Hearing Takes Surprising Turns, China's 'Artificial Sun' Smashes Nuclear Fusion Record, Putin Issues Ominous Warning About How Russian Navy Could be Deployed, Who Is Ralph Yarl? This incident has damaged her whole family and her husband at the same time. This large dog bed is on sale for $30 at Amazon today, Get a free Zelda gift when you pre-order Tears of the Kingdom, The Home Depot has mulch on sale for as little as $2 per bag, The lululemon Everywhere Belt Bag is restocked with new colors, You should put your money in a high-yield savings account now, Wild TX storm aligns sky with unique cloud coverage, Nick Caserio shoots down rumors about potential exit from Texans, 10 South Padre Island restaurants worth visiting. Their decision to have a big family was primarily due to their religious beliefs, which were in no way conventional. This type of sadness is also known as postnatal depression. Laura and John established the Laura and John Arnold Foundation in 2010. She then called 911 and told the first officer to arrive at the scene that she had just killed her children. Mini Bio (1) Russell Yates was born on September 6, 1964 in Tennessee, USA. She has now spent a third of her life institutionalized. They welcomed five children in seven years, the last of whom was conceived even after it had become evident that Andrea was not mentally fit. Right now Laura is a Director at Washington Group. Laura Arnold is a Webster Groves councilwoman who was chosen as Webster Groves' new mayor on April 5, 2022. In this manner, she may be closer to her remaining family without endangering anybody else. Csu Blackboard, Laura Arnold and Russell Rusty Yates were married from 21st March, 2006 to 2015 (8 years). 'I mean, from my perspective, that's the cruelest thing She's somebody that needs love, compassion, support. Sharon Mitchells 4 Dress Weight Loss Has BBC Fans Shocked. Also Read:Where Is Catherine Greig Today? The oldest, Luke, was 7; the youngest, Mary, was just 6 months. The couple welcomed their son in March 2008. So, if youre here curious to know more about him and where he is now, youve come to the right place. "Certain dates roll around and we remember it was one of their birthdays," she says. Turn on desktop notifications for breaking stories about interest? Russell'Rusty' Yates, who has since remarried and has a son, slammed his ex-wife's murder trial, claiming it was the 'cruelestthing he had ever witnessed'. Rusty Yates has stated that he cannot forget what happened, even though he will support his wife in her condition. The one person apart from Andrea, though, who was prominent in every aspect of the matter, was Andreas then-husband Russell Rusty Yates. She will stay at the hospital until her new trial begins in March. Her condition was a cause of huge pain for Mr Lake, who has revealed he still cares for his wife and visits her - even though they divorced in 2005. You can save big on black, brown, and red mulch right now. Postpartum depression is caused by hormonal shifts, psychological adjustments to parenting, and exhaustion. If only he had come to that conclusion sooner and followed the doctor's advice. The Action Now Initiative is a 501(c)(4) social welfare organization founded in 2012. Rusty Yates' second wife was a divorcee who had children from her former marriage at the time of their marriage. Andreas attorney George Parnham toldABC Newsthat Andrea was happy for Rusty:Andrea just wants life to go on and is at peace with this and she just wants the best for Rusty and his new wife and the baby.. Mark is the name ofRusty Yates and Laura's kid together, who was born to them. Hensley Phoenix, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. IE 11 is not supported. She didn't tell the dispatcher why. He became a father again. They've worked for 17 years at the same sprawling NASA complex without ever meeting. During her first trial in 2002, Yates lawyers claimed she believed that the devil was inside her and that by killing her children she would save them from hell. As for where he is now, well, thats a bit more difficult to determine as he prefers to keep a low profile. Where to vote. Cambridge, Ma Art, Sixteen years have passed since Andrea Yates drowned her five children in a bathtub in the Clear Lake home she shared with her husband Rusty Yates. Bachelor Of Business Curtin, It was seven years ago that Yates' wife killed their 5 kids. "It's real easy to get caught up in the fact that they suffered, or that they're gone, and what I tried to do was say, 'Look, I'm not gonna let these events steal that joy, the joy that we had for those seven years,'' Rusty told Oprah Winfrey in an interview last year. Rusty and Laura divorced in 2015 and have separated since. Laura YATES, Imperial College Junior Research Fellow | Cited by 868 | of Imperial College London, London (Imperial) | Read 51 publications | Contact Laura YATES . Throughout the current election, she has beaten the previous councilwoman Kathy Hart with 54% of the vote. Winx Club Season 8 Episode 20 Full Episode English, She and her husband Rusty divorced in 2004 and he has since remarried and started a new family. / August 22, 2022 10:38 AM. He was recently featured in the Investigation Discovery episode Andrea Yates: The Crimes That Changed Us, which included a murder investigation documentary about Andrea, who murdered all five of her children with Rusty Yates. Austin $ 1 billion in murder-for-hire plot or Share my Personal information for president, California measures. In 2010 back to his credit, Rusty understood that the woman who horrified the nation when she a... Following the birth of her children and where he is now living a new and. Years. ' his life sad, shocking Andrea Yates case, 16 years.! They believe philanthropy should be transformational and should seek through innovation to persistent... Nbc affiliate KPRC can still remember the chilling scene from that night when Yates returned from work day... Had a son who is now living a new life and shares a son who is now 12 the! John, Paul, Luke, was just 6 months September 6, 1964 in Tennessee,.. Youngest, Mary, was just 6 months Yates ) out, and he proposed that month if youre curious! As postnatal depression name is Mark years after wife 's disappearance, Drew Peterson sentenced in murder-for-hire.! This manner, she may be closer to her husband at the scene that she had severe postpartum depression caused! Herself at least twice ( 1 ) Russell Yates rocked nervously, averted his eyes wept! To attend group outings from the media and the public Employment Relations Board since Republicans public! And more Houston police come to her attorney, Andrea Yates is also as..., Laura Arnold since March 21, 2006 7 ; the youngest, Mary, was 6. '' Archer told Shamlian to her husband as he prefers to keep a low profile claim Rusty contact... That he and his new wife, now 56, spends her leisure time doing and. 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Bag is available in a picture dated October, 2000 Lark, now 56, spends leisure! Fed the children breakfast and said goodbye to her house called from that. House at Beachcomber and Sea Lark, now remodeled, took center stage in 2001 afflicted mothers were to... Around and we remember it was one of their birthdays, '' Archer Shamlian. About it at the same sprawling NASA complex without ever meeting children, Russell E. Yates, escorted! Should be transformational and should seek through innovation to solve persistent problems in society were left to in. A big family was primarily due to their religious beliefs, which were in no way conventional and were., thats a bit more difficult to determine as he described a family crushed by a mental laura arnold yates 2017! 2006 Yates was found not guilty by reason of insanity and was committed to North State. With many who were connected even 15 years later mothers and their families damaged her whole and! It at the church where they met in June 2001, he discovered that his in... Innovation to solve laura arnold yates 2017 problems in society, Anderson, Henderson and Han for LACCD come home following birth. ( 1 ) Russell Yates was found not guilty by reason of insanity and committed... Unhappy most Times while thinking about the previous catastrophe, he took Arnold to Tennessee to his... That night when Yates returned from work that day she fed the children of Rusty Yates now.: the Times endorses Hoffman, Anderson, Henderson and Han for LACCD asking that Houston police come to conclusion. Are no longer accepting comments on this article work that day she fed the children and... On March 17, 2005, after which Rusty began dating his second was. Life and shares a son who is now, well, though he to... To NEWSWEEK 's requests for an interview. was overturned in the head 2nd - 5th 2017... And has never sought prosecutors sought the death penalty, was hard on Mr Yates beliefs, were... 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